Blood Roses Community Forum Index

"It started with a girl..."


 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

The official Buffy/Angel rewatch thread
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Blood Roses Community Forum Index -> General Show
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
sybil
Oracle


Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 899

PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow! I am so behind. How do you write so much, so well extemperaneously (and funny!) with actual deep comparison from script to performance.

I am back here with Puppet Show....

I do think that the scoobs are not “the scoobs” because we are to recognize the notion of “seeing” and “stereotype.” The outsider here actually is being shown in each one of them, especially in how they perceive the world. The “real world” being presented in an escape world, within an escape world (and all of them in which we escape or do engage our own inner reality) is given the focus.

An example is in Giles, who, is rather quippy, actually,(snerk); in which Xander has the insight that such “truth” may be a descriptive shorthand that he alone actually understands. As the adult, Giles isn’t really concerned with adult “chores,” and he seems to have only children in his life, yet his knowledge is not really in children at all, but in the unfathomable world of the child psyche being set in a world of “simplistic” adults. He “doesn’t fit” yet does, in all his British oddity—and you Brits are odd; hee hee with too many conventions contradicting too many layers.

I don’t quite know what you mean by lack of heart, but would offer that the problem is too much “political correctness.” It was done with purpose, as each of these people is a “stereotype” at this point. Xander the goof—who actually had “insight”—why he is later blinded to the world in one eye, yet given vision to the inside purpose and meaning of the inner journey: all the courage of the warrior in growing up to be a strong man, a sensitive man, and a good father in the world. Willow, the geek—don’t forget that word meant crazy, freak, one who bites the heads of chickens (something DB has an actual phobia of) and, even as a computer “nerd” her geekness actually turns out to be inordinate focus on connecting with nature, the Craft, while avoiding her own “connectedness.”

Buffy later admitted to Angel she was a “Spordelia.” I think that word is genius. Spores are not true seeds in the reproduction of ferns, a primitive and forerunner kind of plant, and Cordelia’s harsh, cynical and shallow values hid a woman who felt quite lonely within her own group; perhaps why she thought “older men” might be more than the status symbol of having a car, he just might be able to really see her in some more mature way. Well, we all know that even a centuries old vampire had serious growing to do of his own, and her efforts to bring light into his life, (the plastic flower and the colors instead of the charcoal in sketch work), while being grounded in the realities of human life—we serve, yet also need the means to maintain the body making service possible—would be a part of it on ATS.

The idea is to see how the things we don’t like in the world are things about ourselves. Afterall, we are doing the perceiving and that is what is being “reflected.” (mirror is the nature of the metaphor in “vampire”—why Angel does not reflect, and why this alone is the reason for “evil” to be the “truthteller” in this verse. However, “assumption” that doesn’t reflect reality is also known as a stereotype.

That each of us is an “outsider” even to our own psyches, is not lost on the nature/metaphor of a puppet, who is manipulated (forced into action) by that psyche, that is “outside” of his own, (sense of himself) yet it is the nature of the manipulator (the real “I” or the differentiated and unintegrated sense of id, ego, superego who is being revealed (thus reflected).

This is also the nature of mask, which also plays into the word masque—and it once spoke of the merry dance to death—not to mention the Shakespeare notion of actors upon a stage, each playing their part. I think Joss had some pretty high flown ideas he was trying to wrestle to form, as a bizarre dream is given shape, direction, and a plot line that itself can still remain a mystery demanding further understanding. “Don’t assume.”

I do think that Joss feels that our traumas mark us forever, even in the tangle of escaping them requires naming them. However, he also claims he doesn’t believe in regret, as that is something holding one to the past. I call bullsh*t or he wouldn’t have to kill his father so much in everything he touches.

And, yeah, it was kinda boring because the clarity of the metaphors were trotted out much more significantly, especially with regard to the nature of the vampire as mirror (and the truthteller or the actual blindness to the self, which the "broody set" tend to marginalize as the only self aka "stuck."); and the struggle of perception with regard to fate and free will.

I love puppets. I hate the ignorant crowds watching. Case in point: Punch and Judy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punch_and_Judy
Not ironic.

HUGS!
Sybil
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kairos
Forum Gargoyle
Moderator


Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 1423

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 4:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Wow! I am so behind. How do you write so much, so well extemperaneously (and funny!) with actual deep comparison from script to performance.


Ha, I should be the one asking you that. I feel like I'm going so slowly through the episodes - and I want to keep going so I can actually rewatch this series, like I meant to in the first place!

I....still don't like puppets. But you might be onto something with the ignorant crowds watching them.
_________________
But there the silver answer rang: not Death, but Love.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
sybil
Oracle


Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 899

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I should have been clearer. I hate the ignorance, not the people. Ever have a doll or a stuffed toy? Ever wear a mask or costume? No difference.

What do you think of robots? I am not sure if there is a difference between robotics and robots, but there seems to be, to me, in some kind of way that begins to draw lines towards notions of slavery rather than "tool" or "toy."

BTW, everytime I see Buffy with Mr. Gordo, I appreciate a host of symbols, among them the presence of Angel himself.
HUGS!
sybil
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sybil
Oracle


Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 899

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I should have been clearer. I hate the ignorance, not the people. Ever have a doll or a stuffed toy? Ever wear a mask or costume? No difference.

What do you think of robots? I am not sure if there is a difference between robotics and robots, but there seems to be, to me, in some kind of way that begins to draw lines towards notions of slavery rather than "tool" or "toy."

BTW, everytime I see Buffy with Mr. Gordo, I appreciate a host of symbols, among them the presence of Angel himself.
HUGS!
sybil
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sybil
Oracle


Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 899

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, boy...There is some malware virus that is supposed to kick in at midnite; I have no idea how this post of mine doubled itself. Notice the number is the same on posts.

Just wanted to apologize if there is something going on that needs a virus check. Don't want to lose any of you!
HUGS!
sybil

ETA: this post kicked up that 430 to 431! Wow! Guess things got sorted with forcing another post into the count. Weird! Maybe a time stamp glitch?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kairos
Forum Gargoyle
Moderator


Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 1423

PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Weird blips happen sometimes, sybil - I can delete the excess ones if you want, but I didn't want to blindside you with it. Smile

So, I shall continue with the rewatch.

Mark Watches.
Noel Murray's next three reviews.
A drabble by me.

It's harder to get a review of the next episode up when the next episode isn't very good, and I think you'll be hard pressed to find anyone who ranks "Inca Mummy Girl" among their favorites. In addition to its sub-par plot and writing, it's rather a downer just because it comes right after "School Hard", when all of these elements promising us a great season are introduced. Then we get nothing - no Spike and Dru, no advancement of the season's plot. It's the first (and only) episode of Season 2 without Angel. What were they thinking?

One quick gripe I have to make is about the cultural portrayals, and this is actually one thing where I agree with Mark, possibly the first and last time since I started reading his reviews. The whole treatment of South America (you know, the country of South America, where they speak South American) was embarrassing. The International Dance or whatever was cringe-worthy. Sven dressed up as a viking. Vikings didn't even wear helmets with horns, did you know that? DID YOU? To be fair, this kind of event probably did happen at high schools in the 90's, so maybe we can just look at this as realism, but ugh. Someday I want to go to an event in a foreign land where they make me dress up in a historical American costume. Maybe I could be a Puritan!

The episode does have one redeeming feature, though (aside from the usual collection of scattered funny lines and the fact that Giles exists): the introduction of Oz. I think it makes perfect sense to concentrate on that factor, no?

But first, Willow. I might have thought a little too hard about the scene with Rodney, but a couple things surprised me: first, that Willow didn't hold it against him that he used to beat up Xander, and second, that Rodney was actually really nice to her. I got the impression that there was something of a friendship between them. Not enough of one for her to spend a second mourning him, of course, but an appreciation of each other. Which is weird, right? What does a smart shy kid see in a bully? What does a troublemaker see in a genius?

On Rodney's side it's kind of sweet. On Willow's side it's a bit ominous - apparently, she cares more about a person's behavior toward herself than she does about his behavior in general, or even toward her own best friend. I could even believe that her years of frustration with Xander led her to take some conflicted pleasure at his abuse. On the other hand, ouch. That's pretty bad. Let's give her the benefit of the doubt and say that she only started liking Rodney after he reined in his bullyish tendencies.

Clearly what I'm doing here is trying to justify the drabble I wrote the other day, because nobody commented on it and my heart is empty. Okay, no seriously though, I accept and embrace the drabble being ignored, it wasn't that interesting, but here's my thoughts in a different form: Willow and Oz have something unexpected and awesome in common, shown to us before they meet. Rodney and Devon have practically nothing going for them except a vague social coolness which manifests in Rodney as rebellion, and in Devon as shallow charm. Willow and Oz, on the other hand, are incredibly smart people with talent, courage, and individuality. Yet they don't look down on anyone. They're not too good to hang out with the morons, even when they have nothing to gain from it.

I especially like seeing Oz and Devon interact - rather extensively, considering that they're both brand-new characters and not talking about anything related to the episode's plot - because their friendship continues for as long as Oz is in the series, though I'm pretty sure that Devon stops appearing in person. Part of it, obviously, is that they're in a band together. Part of it is that Oz himself is terminally apathetic (I'm sure I'll have a lot to say about that later, but for now, let's just acknowledge it - he's not perfect, though he comes close). But the main thing is that they're just buddies. Oz is okay with Devon being his shallow self because he doesn't need anything more than him, and he's okay being up front with his criticisms because he knows Devon respects him and deserves honesty.

And here's another interesting relationship square: Willow/Oz, Cordelia/Devon. We'll have to keep an eye on the latter; I don't remember how long they last, but I want to see what it is that breaks them up, since right now they're essentially perfect for each other. Oz's friend and Willow's enemy - are they too alike to make it work?

Oh shoot, I think I have more to say about Willow. Isn't this supposed to be a Xander episode? Well, that's fairly pat. He falls in love with a dead girl, it ends badly. Although, if it were happening in real life, I think I'd feel pretty bad for him - he and Ampata make a great match, even if there isn't a whole lot of reason that their feelings for each other should develop so swiftly. Aside from his insensitivity to Willow, he really wasn't even a jerk about it.

But forget him, for the moment. Think instead of Willow in the Eskimo suit. Remove the weird high school cultural festival context. It's a great costume, and she's excited about it. Until she gets to the event, and Buffy isn't there, and Xander's only about Ampata. All alone in a parka, poor Willow.

Enter Cordelia, looking gorgeous and baring skin, and all too ready to make fun of the nerd girl who doesn't have the sense to do the same. The message is pretty damn clear: if you don't want to be alone, better learn how to attract the boys. Willow herself states it explicitly: "Maybe I should have worn something sexy."

Now, I'm divided on how this was resolved. On one hand, NO. WILLOW, NO. Be your fun, creative, parka'd self. Thank the heavens that Oz was there to back me up, stating just as explicitly that he's interested in the fun girl over the sexy girl. On the other hand, Cordy's path was ultimately the one that Willow chose. Not entirely; she never adopted the Cordette styles and obviously she wasn't seeking the attention of boys at the end. But she did learn about being cool. Her growth in confidence, I think, had less to do with finding people like Oz who appreciated her for who she was, and more to do with simply avoiding any possibility of again getting caught in an unsexy outfit at a dance.

I think I actually had a better point to make before I wrote that down. Oh, well.

All in all, I think if you're an Inca princess who was unfairly sacrificed a thousand years ago in the prime of your youth, you still shouldn't kill people just to stay alive. Although there are a lot of other considerations to this that weren't even brought up - has she really been conscious the whole time she's been a mummy? That's horrible and someone should do something about it. Also, did she save her people by being sacrificed, or was it just one of those meaningless heathen rituals? Big difference!

Not much to say about Buffy, the girl herself, but I did pause for a while on the final lines, when Xander points out that she chose to give up her life when it was needed, and Buffy says "I had you to bring me back." Of course she's looking first and foremost for something to say to make her friend feel better, and this definitely fits the bill. But how does it fit into the context? Buffy and Ampata both had to make the ultimate sacrifice; Buffy was the only one who actually did it, even though she didn't want to. It's basically luck that she's alive now, but it's luck in the form of Xander.

So, is this just an expression of gratitude to give him in exchange for his acknowledgement of her own strength? Or is it more to say that she had friends, where Ampata didn't? That actually might heighten my sympathy for the mummy. Maybe there is some truth behind it - it was easier for Buffy to give of herself, because she knew that there were others who would do the same for her, even if she didn't know that one of them would in fact nullify her own death. Ampata had no basis for learning how to be selfless.

I still don't like her though. Stay in your box, damned dead girl!

Okay, this episode feels sufficiently squeezed out. Here's some quotes.

Quote:

BUFFY
I wasn't gonna use violence. I
don't always use violence. Do I?

XANDER
The important thing is, you believe
that.

BUFFY
I might have used reason. Or my
feminine wiles.


Hmm. Which one did Willow use?

Quote:

XANDER
Ooh, Sunnydale bus depot. Classy.
What better way to say "Welcome
to Our Country" than with the
stench of urine.


Xander vs. Bus Stations - it's a thing. We'll keep track.

Quote:
ANGLE: A MAN (PERU MAN)

murder in his eyes, rushes from the shadows, shrieking. Long, curved KNIFE raised. (Some people call it a huge, machete-like carving blade. We call it a long, curved knife.)


The first time I copied these quotes in, my post got eaten, so I'm going the half-assed route for the second time. But I thought you should have these stage directions.

Quote:
INT. BUFFY'S ROOM - MOMENTS LATER - NIGHT

Buffy and Joyce make up an extra bed.

BUFFY
You said she was staying in the study.

JOYCE
That was when we thought Ampata
was a boy. But since he's a girl, I
thought you could double up.

BUFFY
Mom, you think too much.

JOYCE
You two in a room together? Give
you both a chance to share secrets.

BUFFY
I'm not a big secret sharer. I like
my secrets. They're secret.

JOYCE
Oh, it'll be fun.

BUFFY
Fun. Yeah.
(smiling)
You know, next year I ought to sign
up for one of those 'exchange mom'
programs.

Joyce smiles as they finish making the bed.


Nice little Buffy and Joyce moment that we missed out on. Plus, I like the way Buffy is kind of resentful of Ampata out of her hearing, but takes care to not show it in any way that could hurt her feelings.

Quote:
Two students, SAM and OZ - by their looks, obviously members of the band - load music and sound equipment into a van, which has their logo emblazoned on the side. Cordelia talks with DEVON, the band's good-looking lead singer.


Character introductions! Hold on, there's a better one for Oz coming up.

Quote:
There's a quiet restraint and total lack of bitterness to his sarcasm; where Devon is your typical excitable rock and roller, Oz is completely unflappable. His is the kind of cool that is completely unaware of itself.


Love this guy.

Quote:
ANGLE: XANDER AND AMPATA

as they enter. They're gorgeous together.


I wouldn't go that far, but Xander does look pretty spiffy in his costume.
_________________
But there the silver answer rang: not Death, but Love.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
Kairos
Forum Gargoyle
Moderator


Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 1423

PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark Watches.

A story I wrote a couple years ago.

Reptile Boy!

One of my biggest beefs about this episode is something that should be fairly minor, but for some reason, isn't. Buffy's "nice guy", Tom, is a fail. His appearance is bland and artificial, the actor is wooden, and he doesn't say anything that would explain why Buffy initially likes him enough to accompany him to his party. The friendly college student ruse is effective enough, but it doesn't matter - when he turns out to be evil, sure, that could explain why he cast such a one-dimensional blemish-free image, but the lingering and still more likely explanation is that he's just a poorly conceived character. The one-dimensional thing, it's fact.

And he had some good lines, too! The whole "nothing happened last week, I was there" exchange was charming and almost clever; seems like only the delivery was off, for that and a few others. I just really wanted him to fool me, even in a rewatch. I wanted to rail at my screen, "Why do all the cute funny guys turn out to be demon-worshipers?!" But instead all I can think about is his stupid sweater and hair. Dolt.

Other gripes: why the bejeezus would anyone need a computer to think of words that end in 'ENT'? Xander got that bra off way too easily; either he has practice or it was velcro. The snake looks like a hand puppet. Angel's lipstick looks like lipstick. Why did they call it "Reptile Boy" instead of coming up with some clever pun about the frat?

On the whole, though, I like this episode. The setting is kind of cool; I have no experience with frats but I kind of buy the way this one was portrayed. There are a lot of good character moments between the clumsier bits of dialogue. Buffy and Giles' relationship was a highlight, as was the demonstration that Buffy can be taken out with one roofied drink passed to her by a powerless human - chilling, but useful information.

And, of course, there's the B/A factor.

The Buffy and Angel show: Okay, forget the whole frat boy thing, because this is really what the episode is about. And I love it. I love Angel's first appearance coming with an undeniable reminder that he's a vampire. I love Buffy's nervous dance as she tries to figure out how to phrase her request for a date. I love Angel seeing through her, and I love how he's an asshole about it. Sure, I also love how they eventually resolve the argument and get couply at the end, but most of all, I love how the conflict has finally come to the surface for them, and that they have to talk about it directly. Uh, almost directly.

The most controversial line in the episode is "When you kiss me, I want to die." (Controversial is the wrong word. If there were ever heated arguments about this line, I'm sure they're over by now. But there's potential here for disagreements, possibly disagreements with emotions behind them, so I'm going to leave the word where it is.) I wrote a whole fic about it, linked above, but since it's been a while since then and now I finally have "Reptile Boy" in the spotlight, I'm going to do something that writers shouldn't do, and explain my train of thought while I was writing it.

The complaint leveled against the line (I gather) is that it's not healthy for Buffy to be feeling this way about a man she allegedly loves. This is true. It's not. Buffy and Angel, as anyone watching can see, are a long way from healthy at this point. They've admitted their feelings toward each other, and these are no ordinary feelings, but they're still dancing around them. They're seeing each other frequently - and apparently sharing the occasional kiss, even - but aren't "together". And now, she's insisting, and he's belittling her. Not healthy at all.

I may have mentioned in an earlier review that I'm fascinated by the mystery surrounding their relationship in the first season up to this point. What have they been up to? Why has it taken them so long to actually talk about where they stand? Only one thing it could be - they already know. They're in love, they can't be together, end of story. The mature, healthy thing to do would be to cleanse themselves of their attraction and get on with their lives, but, hello, that's impossible. So they push their boundaries. They pretend they're just working together, but hey, we can hold hands while working. Need somewhere for your tongue? How 'bout in my mouth?

Buffy shakes things up when she actually addresses this, with "One thing already has led to another", and I love her for it. On her side of the conversation, you can see the stance she's taking on their dilemma. "This isn't working, it's not good for us, something needs to change." Her not-so-controversial line is the clincher. She's not happy. In my story, it reflects a scenario she dreams up in which Angel finds her body and finally feels that he can kiss her without feeling guilty about it, but I don't think it's meant to be that literal. What she's going through right now is an understanding that her greatest desire can never be, and it hurts her badly, and every kiss is a reminder of it.

So I think she's justified. Obviously, she doesn't really want to die. Obviously, she's being a little overly dramatic. But Angel can be pretty thick, and this might be exactly what he needed. Hey you, guy who loves Buffy more than life! The thing that you are doing is causing her pain! Knock it off!

Wow, I'm usually nicer to Angel than this. Okay, now I'll look at things from his perspective. Right now, he's still very unsure of himself, though he doesn't know about the curse. He has without a doubt considered in great depth what a relationship with him would mean for Buffy, and come out with the conclusion that it would do more harm than good. He thinks that Buffy agrees, because they've talked about it at least once before ("this can't ever"), but he also knows that she's in love with him. (Which, sidebar, is one thing I love about how their romance is portrayed. There's never any "She'll be fine, she doesn't really care about me anyway." He makes his decisions based on what's best for her, but factors in her feelings toward him as part of that, even if he never knows why she loves him.) As far as he can tell, they've been maintaining this imperfect professionalism together, but he's not surprised that she's the first one to crack. And realistically, he shouldn't be. She is young, she's less jaded than him, less cautious, and less willing to endure years of loneliness.

As always, he's trying to protect her. He intuits that he's dangerous without knowing why - he might be having more trouble controlling his bloodlust than he lets on, or he might not trust himself to keep his sex drive turned low. He might be thinking long-term, imagining all of the opportunities that Buffy would miss if she's tied to a dead end partner like him. Unfortunately, he chooses to express these concerns by telling her she doesn't know what she wants. (Which is a rather disappointing line. Can we not have the point spelled out so blatantly, please?) He's already angry, it seems: Why does Buffy have to make this hard for him? Why can't she just go with the plan they agreed upon, in which she lives a happy fulfilling life without him?

So, there's plenty of fuel for his bad conversational decisions. He knows his vampirism is to blame for the danger he poses to her, and tied into that is his age, so that's what he mentions. All of his arguments are based in "We can't." He's caught completely off-guard when Buffy and Willow fight back against something entirely different: "You don't want to."

Of course he does want to, but his brain is going dangerdangerdanger, and his mouth is just trying to come up with better ways to say it. I find it telling that he goes with "out of control", and that Buffy has such a perfect comeback. She's right - for any other couple, it's supposed to be out of control. But, danger! The episode's plot is perfectly constructed to defeat that idea. Buffy gets into trouble by not being Angel's girlfriend, and Angel begins to realize that her happiness, at least for the present, is a greater priority. He can be there for her, love her, not destroy her life, and make use of whatever time they have in whatever way she wants. The last part is of course the most thematically important for the plot we're currently dealing with, because it means he stops treating her like a child and accepts that hey, sometimes the girl doesn't want you to obsess about her mortality. Even though Willow's accusation of him giving Buffy the brush-off because he doesn't have time for a cup of coffee isn't anywhere close to accurate, it's still a valid point. Whatever his reasons for rejecting her, they made her feel unwanted, and he needs to do whatever it takes to fix that.

Also I read somewhere once that the potential "ick factor" of their age difference is dealt with by making Buffy the one who's in control, and that starts here. I firmly believe that their ages are equal in every way that matters. Angel has the wisdom of his years, but his maturity is right around Buffy's, and Buffy's is far beyond that of a typical sixteen year old. She's the one who lives in the world, she's the one who has the most at stake, she's calling the shots, as it should be.

Cordelia and boyfriends: So, here's a thing. Cordelia is probably the canon character that I relate to the absolute least, and that includes the males, demons, and Miss Edith. But her routine about how to reel in a guy with your active listening? I do that. Just not to reel in guys. I can't help it. I've convinced myself that what people want is someone who looks like she's paying attention and impressed by your humor, and since it's not altogether easy to cultivate that impression, I work at it fairly hard during most conversations. And, just like Cordelia, I often miss everything that the person actually said to me, because hell if I can appear to be listening and also listen at the same time. The exaggerated laugh is part of it. Mine is more convincing than Cordy's, but it's not usually genuine. Most people aren't funny; I can't help that.

Anyway, this episode adds one to the pile for Cordelia's failed romances. He doesn't die, but it's kinda worse than that. I feel sorry for her, and that might be just because I can finally empathize. She's not naturally shy like I am, so it's not a simple case of nerves for her, but both of us have a goal, and the goal is for people to like us. For Cordy, it's especially important for wealthy attractive men to like her, because whether or not she'll admit it at this point, her plan is to marry one and secure her lifetime wealth and (she assumes) happiness. I'm not judging her for this. I can't. She's preparing for the future in her own way, and it happens to involve dating rather than choosing a career. So what?

The hole in the plan, of course, is revealed right within the episode. Wealthy rich men aren't necessarily good husbands. Indeed, some of them could make your life a living hell (or feed you to a giant snake, whatever). Cordy's task is a lot more difficult than she realizes. If she knew that she wasn't shallow enough to require more than money to make her happy, she'd probably turn her sights to another kind of man - or away from dating altogether. Either way, she would have to lose the fake laugh routine; that won't attract the right kind of person to share her life with. Right now, she still thinks she's shallow, but she'll spend the season realizing she isn't, and for her, it's a theme that will continue for as long as we're watching her.

Of course, we can note right now that she enjoys talking to Xander, and vice versa. Oh come on! It would have been so easy to ignore him, but no, she banters.

Willow and feelings (mine): Willow is totally shipping Buffy and Angel. You'd think I'd be oozing love on her for that, right? You'd be wrong! See, Willow and Buffy have this code. Willow supports every relationship that Buffy wants to pursue. Buffy supports every relationship that Willow wants to pursue. It doesn't matter what kind of relationship it would be, or whether the crush in question is potentially a good romantic partner - if Buffy wants it, Willow wants it, and vice versa. While this is really very true to the lives of teenage girls, especially BFFs, it's not a great policy. Buffy's having sexy dreams about a vampire; the last thing she needs is more encouragement to yearn after him. What she does need is a disinterested analysis of the pros and cons of getting involved with Angel, so she has a basis for deciding for herself whether or not to ignore them.

Willow doesn't have that, okay, that's fine, she's the same age as Buffy and with even less dating experience. But she's making it harder by not admitting that she doesn't know how to handle it, by instead getting excited on Buffy's behalf and coming up with ways to snare that sexy vampire. Buffy can't look at this objectively, and that includes not being able to dismiss her friend's advice - especially since Willow is kind of the only one talking to her about it at all. Soon she'll be coaxing Willow to make a move with Oz. Later, Willow will approve of Riley; Buffy will approve of Tara (after a bit of static, granted). They'll get angry at the love interests on each other's behalves, but they'll never be the ones to issue the initial warning. Willow doesn't really ship Buffy/Angel, she ships Buffy/Whoever Buffy Wants.

Xander and bus stations: I'm not going to say anything about bus stations, that's just how I want to label my thoughts about Xander from now on. I don't expect to collect a lot of agreement on this, but I really don't have a problem with the way he rags on Cordelia at this point. He knows something she doesn't - that the hot rich guys aren't going to work out for her - and he's holding her to a higher standard than she is herself. Granted, he's only doing it because he's enraged that he won't be considered as a match for her because he lacks the qualities that she wants and he knows they're superficial, so it's purely personal, but it's a legitimate thing to be angry about. She didn't start off with a reason to hate him, she just decided he was beneath her. It's not surprising that his bitterness turned into a need to find appalling insults to hurl at her.

I also get a lot of sincere cringes from the 'New Pledge' ritual. Hazing's bad enough as it is; I can't imagine doing it to someone you never expect to see again.


Quote:
INT. LIBRARY – DAY – GILES IS UPSET


That was cute.

Quote:
BUFFY
Or what it’s like to exterminate vampires
while you’re having fuzzy feelings
towards one.

GILES
You’re still…? That is dicey.


Wish they had kept this; I'm always interested in what Giles thinks about B/A, pre-Surprise. I like it that Buffy so openly admits it to him, even though she must know he'll think it's dicey, and I like it that he's honest about his reaction but doesn't scold her, even though he's in the middle of a more general scolding.

Quote:
She moves to the car. The dark window rolls down revealing RICHARD (the twenty year old sadist from the teaser) in expensive slacks and sport coat. As are the other two DELTA ZETAS in back.

In the passenger seat is TOM, also 20, but dressed casually. Tom is rich, too, but he’s not a prick, he’s a low key, decent guy.


Because I always bring you the character introductions.

Quote:
BUFFY
I don’t really want to meet any fraternity –

CORDELIA
And if there was a God, don’tcha’
think He’d keep it that way?


I'm really conflicted about this line because it's kind of funny and so Cordelia, but her grammar fail makes it not work. Keep it what way? Buffy not wanting to meet any fraternity guys?

Quote:

BUFFY
Then… whatever, I don’t know, might be
nice to find out. But you want to end it
before it’s begun. Fine.


Alternate to the "isn't it supposed to be?" exchange. I think I prefer the aired version.

There was also a whole bit at the party about Xander sneaking in under a name from the guest list. The window thing was better.

Quote:
The others murmur “Machida” (pronounced Ma-Kee-Da).


That got me curious so I looked up Machida. Got this: "Lyoto Carvalho Machida is a Brazilian mixed martial artist from Salvador, Bahia, Brazil who fights as a light heavyweight in the Ultimate Fighting Championship." Well then.

And here's another little bit of alternate:

Quote:
Tom comes to near the alter. And, unbeknownst to any of our heroes, the snake body begins slowly moving. Until it joins up with the torso. A squooshy sound of flesh and protoplasm meeting and the two halves re-join!

CORDELIA (cont’d)
(to Tom)
You’re going to jail for about fifteen
thousand years. Oh god, it’s over…
it’s really…

That’s when Machida, re-joined, suddenly pops up again.

Angel takes a threatening step forward next to Buffy and growls.

Machida towers over Tom:

MACHIDA
For a hundred years I have given your forebearers
wealth and power. And this is how you repay me.
From this day forth you are alone in the world.

Machida slides back down. Cordelia is afraid to breathe. With good reason. Machida pops back up, grabs Tom.

MACHIDA (cont’d)
Lil’ somethin’ for the road.

Machida disappears into the pit with Tom. We hear Tom’s screams, a quick couple of chomps and then silence.


Anyone's guess whether this was cut for length, or because they decided jail was better than death for the evil human, or because it turned out to be too difficult for the actor to speak in the snake costume, but I do regret missing out on Angel's threatening growl.

Quote:
A high school freshman, a real young looking one, moves up to Cordelia, hands her a coffee and a muffin. He looks up at her (being so much shorter and all) adoringly.

CORDELIA
Thank you, Leslie. Did we forget the
extra foam?


I think this is the second time that Jonathan's played a role that was some random kid in the script - how long did it take for them to figure out that he should be a regular guest star?

Quote:

WILLOW
They didn’t find the snake? (Xander shakes his head)
Which means we probably will some
day. Oh goody.


Or maybe this is why they changed it - they knew they'd never bring the snake back.

Another one down!
_________________
But there the silver answer rang: not Death, but Love.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
sybil
Oracle


Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 899

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And, here i come sliding into "home plate" when (crickets chirping) everyone is already into Reptile Boy!

I think you made some astute observations about this episode; and I think that Ampata is sympathetic in that she didn’t choose to actually be “ the great honor,” as the great sacrifice in beliefs she may even have held. BTVS seems to recognize that fate is only belief, no matter how much it comes true in prophecy; and not liking it creates POV, aka “choice” that is itself “free will.” . Buffy embracing “fate” (pre ordained and guaranteed e.g. death) or “destiny” the ultimate point/purpose/meaning of life, which is also death), is actually is the source to free will, the state of conscious choice to do so. Embrace “fate” as “free will.” That is Nietzsche in one sentence. And that is why it seems so “fatalistic” and can devolve into nihilism, because of that “bell curve” approach regarding death.

We are also introduced to Rodney Munson, the ‘gift to the “Bell Curve.” ‘ Chuckit25 explained to me why this “Nobel prize winning idea” is pure B.S, (assumptions that aren’t in reality), which is why the “lack of smarts” precedes and ends” the curve: a flat line. (BrainDead). That Willow connects to a bully reveals something interesting; he is scraping at a mask. Thus, he is “destructive,” but the metaphor is he is revealing he actually knows he is stupid and thus, is probably himself “bullied” about it. It is why the “punishment” of being “exiled” from school was an “empty threat,” but is in proof isolation. This is something Willow knows too well, from the “same-but-different- Other End of the “bell curve” of being “too smart.” Ouch.

BTVS and ATS spends a lot of time on beliefs (as well as, Oedipus for the boys; I mean “mummy girl?”— ), and the nature of reality and of faith, and how those paths cross. After all, just because we mathematically can suggest the reality of other dimensions, doesn’t mean we can experience them, yet in REM sleep we really experience “another world” yet are our bodies are “paralyzed” in this one.

I think it is important to appreciate that Ampata could actually hear about the world from her coffin, but couldn’t directly experience it. (Something I attribute to vampires). Her need for the experience of all the world was her great hunger, and it would seem, even greater than her will/love for Xander.

It would seem that because Ampata had a soul, prior death, she has this “special connection” through dimensions, that Darla did not—she didn’t remember a thing after Angel killed her. And Darla’s new body was at the behest of “evil powers” themselves in “another dimension” and are Wolf, Ram and Hart, so “obviously” that flesh was “evil/corrupted” that only the trope of “I believe in you” that saves the musical and the day, would save her; but that dadburn “hunger” made her “evil/corrupted” flesh/cells “bite back.” Oops, a vampire again. (Angel didn’t believe in her enough, as he wasn’t in love with her, even if his compassion for her suffering, her fears is considered “divine love.”)

After all, we are also talking the “melding of two cultures,” as Buffy called the student program, in a metaphor for something else. (Sex). Even Cordelia brings up “dogly,” which could be physically ugly or the “understanding between species” about “chasing tail.”



This is one of the fundamental “realities” of the Buffy/Angel worlds: those of “other dimensions” can participate in this one, but cannot have an effect upon it; they need flesh for that to work. This is why those with flesh, who have shared the sense experience (of “real” love—probably something to do with “soulness,” ) with each other—notice vampires can’t have “real love” no matter how much fan fic says they can. Soul “lovers” or “ensouled lovers” can also “share consciousness/dreams”—Willow and Buffy, do this a lot; and those who share both their flesh and their experience, B/A, can also have an effect on both realities (the curse and Twilight).

While I find the dualistic POV as the basic stage, the reality under discussion is flipped back and forth such that the reality of the dream state and subconscious become the reality of “the conscience world or the world exterior” to the “container” of flesh. The “fusing” of both seems to be a material fatality or world destruction aka “adulthood.” Adults “disappear,” or become “clueless,” and that world has no magic, creativity and is/will/should die “magically, some how,” so “potential” can transform death to (new) life.

The other “crystal ball or future cast” being given, in such an innocuous (boring?) episode is that Xander’s effort to grow up in the words “exchange-o boy” said to Buffy, who he seriously crushes on, and will “divine love” love when he gets over the bug women that always try to consume him: vampires. And “just maybe” that life essence he is dying to share, called sex. Well, I also think that Xander has a great will to grow up—“where there is a will, there is a way. And despite Joss. (Um hum. This is a message from Joss. No vampires allowed for the completed and truly accomplished Buffy. Agreed. So, please,” get on with it,” and make the transformation/transfiguration and tell some new stories, already. Back to our regularly scheduled rewatch).

Buffy herself chooses vampires: even Riley’s approach to belief, purpose, and meaning was offered as trying to consume the “old ways” of female power in slayerhood for the “machine” world of warriors. (Which, looking at the Roman phalanx and “the iron age” of weapons, stomped the known world). But nevermind. We are in “the bronze age,” looking at Buffy’s shoes—yes, shoes are a metaphor to the “shoe”: (show).

That Xander still hadn’t overcome his “penchant” for “vampires” in Anya suggests a deep fear/rage (father, of course, yawn), yet it was in his practiced, tried and true beliefs in Buffy, Willow, et al, that he is saved: aka “the soul” or, if you prefer, his own humanity. He is not boogity. At all. When Xander is, he is “mated” with vampire Willow, in the alternative “wish verse.” We learn she is more interested in torture, sex with someone else, and her admiration/fear of Daddy than him—so the poor guy still lives in the world of a bad three way, Willow’s lesbianism included.

(Way, way off topic, because that is what I do, drive a point around the bend and into the weeds). Dawn, having been from an “other dimension” as some great, illicit desire (e.g. Buffy’s own desire for not being alone as a single child, or, perhaps, Buffy’s own desire for an observable self, and that “future cast” especially for a child, “a living doll,” who turns out to be “her” in a lot of negative ways, as well: whiny, “me centered.,” but, we also know, in Buffy’s mind, her love for Angel, subconsciously also holds the “potential” to “destroy the world.”(Duh). She’ll grow up and she wants a world with Angel and a child in it. A lot of Season 9 was left “open” to guess that Spike was the father of Buffy’s child. Soul, check. Different “world,” check. Rape. Same guy, afterall. He is still stealing “DNA” and things of “private use” That is also interesting that Buffy would decide Spike, (is not) the father, is not feasible; and she would choose abortion, the opposite of her hopes with Angel). Anywho… back to Inca Mummy Girl.

The fact Angel is a vampire has been given an impossible hope for both of them: the impossible has already happened: he has a soul. He is also an unchosen, chosen one, and they love each other for belief, for being wholly seen (and lovable), for hope, and for a future neither has been told they can have.

Ampata is in this boat with Alexander; and Buffy has to save Xander from his “best self.” Xander actually treated Ampata well, and not like he was just some walking hormone. (AA anybody?) I also note that “the older woman” is “a thing,” needless to add again the ref to Oedipus (ATS…just Jeesus!) ; and the other( silly) thing: I notice the scarlet letter of A seems to be very important in this verse—red for blood and for “illicit desire,” the adulturer. The hero is wed to the world, not a world within it. A for Ampata, Angel, Anya, and Alexander.

So! Ampata! She wanted happiness and she wanted to live; why is that so terrible? Well, it’s terrible because she isn’t just a force in nature, she is “not natural” as are the vampires. Why? Because in nature, everything must die, (even nature as we know it). We saw, in a pinch, she would choose survival over love of Xander. But not so quick here. Love’s face isn’t only in “selflessness,” it is “transformative.” (Yes, Ampata would not be satiated with Xander’s love; he was only “new” as Darla put it). That the struggle to survive is in every cell of the body,--well, that is a whole lot of “screaming” to overcome. That is the primary struggle and even purpose: to survive. That is why Angel’s will to not feed on Buffy was, not only a great sacrifice, but the will to do it, is not even comprehensible, especially in a fevered and weakened state. That it took a slayer’s strength to fight such a will, was in a direct assault on that body to raise “the id,” the “black rage” (Buffy also shares in “father,” “unfair,” and a pit of suffering) and “the hunger”to consume (all) life to death…and for Buffy, all death to life.

This is the face in the mirror to “Death is my Gift” and, for Angel, the loving embrace of the Death/Destroyer Angel/us by our hero “;death is my gift,;” incarnate,” Buffy, proves love is also death, for it is transformative/transfigurative. (From death to life itself, which also happens in the “little death;” but they were both wearing shoes despite the “fall” over the “flying carpet.” Two for the price of one line. Get it? Hee).

I’d also like to point out that Ampata has a guardian, who spends his life around this sarcophagus. Seems to me, he is just as cursed, as he has to know the great secret that this “girl” having the power to save, has to have the power to destroy. And, isn’t it funny that Giles says it was this guardians duty to make sure she didn’t awaken? Rather the idea of the traditional watcher going here, even though Buffy keeps literally dancing around him, as well as being thoroughly independent of his way of doing things, even though she does “listen to him.” Which is the only world Ampata knew and she had traveled the world, in a literal box. (See, this is the good stuff of Joss, he just keeps those thinky thoughts a –coming!)

I also thought of Cinderella, of course, but the “funny” is that instead of having to clean up all the dust, Ampata is the dust and she cleans up by “making dust” (of others)..

This caught my eye, even though it is funny.

Willow: So, Ampata. You're a girl.

Ampata: Yes. For many years now.

Does this refer to the idea that gender is not “just” genitalia or “appearances;” and sexuality is more than likely unique to you?

And the ending. Buffy relates to Ampata. Ampata was going to have Xander “bring her back to life” again. Buffy said that she didn’t like her fate; but Xander pointed out that she * chose to accept her fate * (free will) so her life wasn’t “gypped” –I hate this slang word, BTW, because it is meant to be seen as racist as it really is; and this is the “capper” to point out how much of this episode was. Joss’s show the hated and ridiculous to show what is “missing.” Like that feminism thing from season 6 on.

Anyway, Buffy had “the breath of life’s essence” from Xander. And everybody is glad. We don’t see any “vampirism” in this act. We see someone who both knew what to do (Angel did, too) but had “life as his gift.”

Also he had to use his lips, like in a kiss that he could not even think about doing with his “ best friend, Willow” but could think of doing with Buffy, as he had “deep hopes,” that are so mirrored in Spike, but Xander actually can change. He is human. Further, he did not just “take,” he, too, wanted that kiss to be completely not this. Like Spike pines for now. So, the “life essence from Xander is horrible with one girl (vampirism, and no choice) while it was will to save Buffy, even as he risked death to do it. After all, Angel is his rival and a vampire, to boot. And the final verdict is that both Buffy fulfilled fate and “beat it” because of Xander doing what Ampata all needed: life and death, one “flowing into the other” : Love. This is why Buffy was “stronger” and why she is indeed rooted in it.
HUGS!
sybil
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kairos
Forum Gargoyle
Moderator


Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 1423

PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark Watches.

Same review, LJ edition.
An oldish drabble I wrote.
Little vid I made for the hell of it.

There's one thing that really bothers me about this episode. No, there are probably several and I'll notice them as I continue to write. Anyway, let's just start with the first one: Sarah Michelle Gellar forgot how to act the moment Ethan Rayne's spell kicked in, and didn't remember again until it was broken. If there's one Whedonverse actor who should never be cast in a historical setting, I found her. (That's not fair, since this particular example was filmed so long ago, but it's a rant, just go with it.) Was her accent worse than Boreanaz's? Probably not, but here's a question: what kind of accent was it? If she transformed into a woman from Angel's past, why didn't she think she was Irish? Or if she did, well, that settles it. Definitely a worse accent than ol' Liam.

I can't imagine there's much else in the way of historical accuracy, either. The entirety of costume-bespelled-Buffy's personality seemed to be weakness, fear, and haughty concern for her appearance. I can't imagine that dress would have fooled anyone, either.

So my first reaction to this is to put my fanwanking muscles in gear. Why was Buffy such a lousy facsimile of an English(/Irish??) noblewoman? Well, maybe because she didn't know anything about the character she was playing. Her conversation with Willow gave us a rundown of her impressions of the type of woman she would try to emulate later: she's spoiled, it's her job to look pretty, and she can't vote. That's what we saw from her, because the spell isn't shaped by what the costume represents, but by what the wearer thinks it represents. Xander wouldn't believe he was just any soldier; he'd want to be the hardcore action hero type. Willow was a pretty basic ghost: dead and insubstantial.

Even if this isn't an airtight theory, I have to go with it for one important reason: the simpering moron stereotype of past generations is vastly insulting to women. It seems to assume that being wealthy and protected makes us stupid, or that we won't want our rights if we're offered comfort instead. I can buy Buffy thinking like this when she's a modern middle-class teenager proud of her own courage, but I don't want it written into the story. We can't know much about the women of the ruling class two hundred years ago, but I believe there was a lot going on beneath the perfectly coiffed hair. Dismissing the victims of societal patriarchy as swooning bimbos is enormously unfair.

That said, it throws me into some confusion to consider Cordelia in the same context. She's the modern swooning bimbo, spoiled and sexy, but in this episode she's written respectfully and actually handles her part in the crisis quite admirably. What do we take from this, aside from the too-vague-to-matter message of "be yourself"? Is Cordelia actually not accustomed to being protected? Is she not affected by the same weakness as Buffy because she's free? Or is the only comparison between Buffy and Cordelia their different methods of attracting men, so the only relevant message is that Buffy's works?

The Buffy and Angel Show: Then there's Angel, who actually coins the phrase "simpering morons." You know you're attached to a character when he says something completely objectionable and you just find it fascinating. It's not the first time, either - back in "Angel" he calls his poor Romani victim "dumb as a post" and never explains it. I've always wondered why he isn't called out more often for these moments, but I guess nobody puts much attention on his early days when there's so much that comes later. I'm sure his personality and history hadn't been fully worked out yet, so some of this could be random, or more likely, he's just saying exactly what Buffy's ideal boyfriend would say. She wants someone who loves her exactly as she is, so he derides everything she isn't.

Later we'll find out that Angel was a womanizing drunk in his human days. It's uncomfortable to think that he hated the girls back then and slept with them all anyway, but there's also an insight somewhere in that. Maybe he just hated everyone. Maybe he deliberately went for the girls he couldn't respect, knowing he didn't deserve one he could. Were they really dull? I doubt it, but the interesting ones didn't give him a second glance. Until Darla, of course. A noblewoman. The kind he especially hated. Heck, she might have been the first one he ever met - he'd hate her automatically anyway, because you know how guys like him feel about women who are clearly out of their league. What to do with a beautiful stranger, all that rage, all that lust? Try to seduce her, of course.

Well, that'll learn ya. But we don't know any of this during "Halloween" - he's just being a dick, and Buffy's loving it. Okay, her I can't blame too much; all she knows is that she just embarrassed herself with assumptions about what her boyfriend wanted, and now he's giving her the green light to relax and be confident in what they have. And I'm sure that's behind Angel's own motivations, too - he's trying to reassure her with the truth, but the nature of this truth means he has to stop before it goes into detail. Still, of all the accusations Angel gets for his moral choices, this is one that I think has been largely ignored: he doesn't always respect the memory of his victims.

That's one big reason that this isn't one of my favorite B/A shippy episodes. The other one is kind of contradictory: it doesn't have all that much to do with Angel. A good test of romantic scenes is to look at the dialogue without the character names. If it's a compelling romance, you'll still know it's these two people talking to each other about each other. "Halloween" is big on Buffy and her feelings, but they're fairly generic feelings and it's a fairly generic story, and Angel could be anyone at all. His only identifying factor is that he comes from the past and likes Buffy better when she's being herself (and to that, duh). So this time we really need to zero in on his insensitivity just to make him interesting.

Cordelia and Boyfriends: Does she break up with Devon by the next episode? We'll check on that. I kind of wanted them to date longer, though. See, they're a great couple, because he doesn't die or try to kill her.

I think I could go on for a while about the extension of the Cordelia vs. Willow theme from "Inca Mummy Girl", but I'm not sure what's been added to it this time, except for what I already said about Cordelia vs. Buffy. It's funny to see Cordy and Buffy competing over Angel at this stage, not only because fandom turns them into a love triangle in a few years, but because Cordy is so hopelessly outmatched. She finds a guy who really is worth fighting for and doesn't know what to do with him, because her usual strategy only works on rich losers.

Xander and Bus Stations: I really like how subtly Cordy and Xander's relationship progresses here. She appreciates him in soldier mode, and I think he must find some relief after the fact that she was there as herself to go through it with him. Plus, that cute conversation about how hard it is to get between Buffy and Angel. Season 2 love square for the win!

My Willow Tree: Willow rocks in this episode, but I don't really have much else to say about her except that her costume was my favorite. It was just such a clever way to have her in both the ghost costume and the sexy one - the ghost is the one that takes effect, but the sheet itself just stays with the body, so she's a ghost of what exactly. And she knows how well she did throughout the night, so she feels fine about catching eyes in public.

I'd wag a finger at Oz if that outfit was the only reason he noticed her, but since it comes after the Eskimo and the ghost, I just love him more. "Who is that girl?" is really the only sensible thing he can say at this point. Don't just decide what you think about the woman - inquire. Find out. Who is she?

Giles and Objects: Considering that this is a huge turning point for his character and I love it and I love him, I'm not really sure what there is to talk about. He's got mysteries. We'll hear more about most of them.

Now for some shooting script quotes...

Quote:
Buffy is about to touch it when ETHAN RAYNE, the shop owner, approaches. He has a devilish glint in his eye and speaks with just a hint of a British accent.


Character introduction! I have no particular feelings about Ethan Rayne, except insofar as he affects Giles. Question, though. Just a hint? I don't know if that's what he was going for, but not a lot of people can pull off a slight accent of any kind - it's either there or it isn't.

Quote:
Willow arrives at a dead (I'm so funny) run.


Yes, you are.

Quote:
They BOLT, but Buffy is having trouble keeping up. Angel SWEEPS her into his arms, carries her.

ON BUFFY

Afraid - but giving into his protection.


Whatever else I've said about Buffy and Angel and simpering women in this episode...yeah. Achilles' heel. Right there.

Quote:
We move through the crowd until we land on ANGEL, sitting at a table alone. Looking a little bored, impatient. A voice snaps him out of his brooding.


Missed this one on my first look - I only mention it because I'm doing a casual brood-count. So far, the word has only been applied to other characters; now we see it describing Angel, but only in the shooting script. Stay tuned!

Quote:
There is a detailed DRAWING of a beautiful woman with long, dark hair. She wears a flowing 18th century gown.


I was going to give you a screencap of this so we could laugh about how Buffy says the illustration doesn't say what the woman's name is, and it totally does, but then I saw that Mark had beat me to it. We can still laugh, though. Seriously, I can't even begin to fanwank this one. Buffy and Willow became temporarily illiterate?

Oh, the other thing that sparked my interest was that it was specified that the woman has long dark hair. Anything to do with Drusilla, you think?

Random notes:

~Willow and Buffy conning Giles to sneak into his office are just about the cutest thing.
~"Hello, Ripper."
~We never hear why vampires eschew Halloween. Theories?
~Buffy has this one fantastically sweet and adorable mannerism wherein she puts her face against her male friend's shoulder and gazes up at him with an innocent smile. I don't know if this was a directing choice or something SMG made up herself, but it's a fairly bold thing to do with a character whose whole purpose is to defeat the flirty female archetype, and I love it.
_________________
But there the silver answer rang: not Death, but Love.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
sybil
Oracle


Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 899

PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if we are talking to each other, or past each other, and I didn't want to skip your one question at the end. I am easily amused and maybe miss when you are seriously asking stuff, as well, so I hope I don't skip over those!

I don't want to ignore all your comments each time, as it is a lot of work to go through this at the level you do. It's an acknowledgment that may come off as "word," which isn't totally helpful, but it is nice if we hear the same notes, in places. so "Wordy word!" hee hee.

First. Did you also notice that Buffy didn't have her blonde hair, but a wig? A mask? Masks are not only for hiding an identity, but were a death procession. That Death metaphor is the single over arching word of change potential we all fear in the 'for real' of it, set within time's arrow.
Superficially, the dark hair is always "wrong" for Angel--that is your clue for a sister figure. No wonder he didn't want Buffy that way!

Simpering isn't a surprising word when helplessness was the actual state of most women, corseted beyond breath, except the exhale of "vapors," and no power to both "have and hold" a man, with extending power over their "druthers" and "nethers" with legal rights and possessions. Yes, Europe has queens, which actually helps "modern" views of women, that the US hasn't had in terms of holding power. And then we have the "problem" of the deferring and dumbing of women as both virtue and excuse for no education to keep women "deferring and dumb."

(Yes, Joss does seem to want his mature people to end up with brown hair, maybe a light brown paired with a darker brown. After all, Buffy is supposed to also be a bottle blond. Darla probably used peroxide as well to "fit" her bright personality "in the trade." Dour sparrows were the norm and God keeps track of those sparrows. And sparrows are purveyors of souls, psychopomps, BTW.

I would add that the use of blond and brunette has taken on racist notions that have made for a sad interpretation of what is good and holding virtue. Even the sun darkening the skin became a statement of class, as the idle rich can a. afford tons of food and walk about like skeletons as "desireable" and don't have to labor for their food so remain lighter skinned. Buffy's blondeness, yet famous tan/bronze skin; and Angel's darkness, but "dead white" skin are shown to be "masks" as Buffy bleaches her hair, and Angel, in sunlight, doesn't have black hair or the black heart of Angelus. See what I mean about color and skin color? I think Joss was showing old conventions have lead to real ingrained stereotypes people don't even think about, that themselves are still entrenched in "fairy tale."

After all, Spike himself actually has curly hair and it is bleached. Even as both actors actually have very tightly curled hair, as would many African originating peoples--which, many believe, we all actually are! Race is actually a falacy, other than "human race" in regular colors, which includes blue and green.

As for Hallowe'en. It's the holy eve of souls in which the veil between life and the beyond is thinnest. a. vampires don't have souls. b. vampires are already dead, so they are "beyond the veil of death, if not dimension--as they infect flesh; and death holds no mystery for them. Life does. They already are walking death and also are not in heaven or hell, whatever is beyond the dimensional veil referenced in Christian religions.

If you are asking a pagan, this stuff is the attempt to be with those who have passed in joyful rememberance that they can remember "flesh"--the good food and fellowship of this world--that they and the world loves/d them; and to face the face of death, as it is in life. They are the paradox in union, so the masque of death is also a celebration of it as the potential for new life within its embrace, when Life takes off its own mask of green for its true colors and harvest of the seed for the next year.

Vampires in short, crave life in daemon (spirit) of life force; and direct experience of the flesh, the heat and "passion"/fear in the blood that carries the life force. Fear is the greatest power to them. Angel learned that the greatest power in this world is actually mercy: the answer to conquer fear.
So what great mystery is there for them to "celebrate" for their "sweet" or even "trick” of true face; ( and "promise" to nourish in their own deaths?)
HUGS!
sybil
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kairos
Forum Gargoyle
Moderator


Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 1423

PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hallo BR folks! I've just updated the "Where to find B/A on the web" thread with my own site, Castle Kairos. One thing I'm using it for is to continue my rewatch, starting from where we left off here oh so long ago. I'm not going to crosspost because I'm already doing that on LJ and it's too much. Anyway you've got your own rewatch going on now and I'd never be able to catch up or keep up. Smile

Naturally you are all welcome to participate on Castle Kairos, in whatever manner you like. Right now there's not much but the backlog of these reviews, but I'm hoping I'll get some feedback on what our side of the fandom wants to see and then I can keep building up the site.

Anyway, since this thread doesn't seem to have any hope for continuation left, I'm going to un-sticky it. For those who are in the new rewatch, would you like to be stickied? All the threads? Current thread? Let me know.
_________________
But there the silver answer rang: not Death, but Love.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
dcai0830
Warrior


Joined: 20 Sep 2017
Posts: 202

PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kairos wrote:
Hallo BR folks! I've just updated the "Where to find B/A on the web" thread with my own site, Castle Kairos. One thing I'm using it for is to continue my rewatch, starting from where we left off here oh so long ago. I'm not going to crosspost because I'm already doing that on LJ and it's too much. Anyway you've got your own rewatch going on now and I'd never be able to catch up or keep up. Smile

Naturally you are all welcome to participate on Castle Kairos, in whatever manner you like. Right now there's not much but the backlog of these reviews, but I'm hoping I'll get some feedback on what our side of the fandom wants to see and then I can keep building up the site.

Anyway, since this thread doesn't seem to have any hope for continuation left, I'm going to un-sticky it. For those who are in the new rewatch, would you like to be stickied? All the threads? Current thread? Let me know.




LOL love this meme (not sure if I'm doing this right)

Thank you for sharing your website. I look forward to reading your reviews! I enjoyed Taaroko's very much.

Not sure what you want the aim to be of your website to be but one thing I think our fandom could use is one website that accomplishes the task of linking all B/A fic works. For a B/A fan you have to go through all of these different websites to find the B/A fics would be great to have a comprehensive list in one place. Especially after Scribes of Angel went down! Not sure if you would be interested in housing something like that on your website? Smile

Other than that I'll just happily stalk your website for my bangel fix. Yay Smile
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Kairos
Forum Gargoyle
Moderator


Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 1423

PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haha, that pic came from way back when Ital Gal pointed out the horrible shirt. Somehow I didn't even notice it on my own.

Thanks much for the ideas, dcai! Unfortunately, corralling all the fanfiction in one place would be extremely difficult, since it's customary to ask for permissions and some of the authors are out of contact with fandom.

If you think it would help at all, I could do a page where authors can submit their own works if they want them listed. Not sure how much of a response it would get though.
_________________
But there the silver answer rang: not Death, but Love.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
Grace Newman
Chosen One


Joined: 18 Jan 2017
Posts: 511
Location: Washington, DC

PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kairos wrote:
Naturally you are all welcome to participate on Castle Kairos, in whatever manner you like. Right now there's not much but the backlog of these reviews, but I'm hoping I'll get some feedback on what our side of the fandom wants to see and then I can keep building up the site.

Anyway, since this thread doesn't seem to have any hope for continuation left, I'm going to un-sticky it. For those who are in the new rewatch, would you like to be stickied? All the threads? Current thread? Let me know.


Whee! Thanks for lowering the drawbridge! I love it already.

I don't think we need anything stickied at the moment for the 20th anniversary rewatch, since we're on pause right now. But if you want to sticky the BtVS Season 4 and AtS Season 1 threads when I start them in a couple of weeks, that would be great!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kairos
Forum Gargoyle
Moderator


Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 1423

PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure thing! Feel free to poke me if I forget.
_________________
But there the silver answer rang: not Death, but Love.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Blood Roses Community Forum Index -> General Show All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
Page 7 of 7

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group