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Buffy Season 4: 20th Anniversary Rewatch Thread
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Grace Newman
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:43 pm    Post subject: Buffy Season 4: 20th Anniversary Rewatch Thread Reply with quote

Season 4 Rewatch!



CALENDAR
March 20: 4x01 The Freshman
March 27: 4x02 Living Conditions
April 3: 4x03 The Harsh Light of Day
April 10: 4x04 Fear, Itself
April 17: 4x05 Beer Bad
April 24: 4x06 Wild at Heart
May 1: 4x07 The Initiative
May 22: 4x08 Pangs 
May 29: 4x09 Something Blue 
June 5: 4x10 Hush 
June 12: 4x11 Doomed 
June 19: 4x12 A New Man 
June 26: 4x13 The I in Team 
July 3: 4x14 Goodbye Iowa 
July 10: 4x15 This Year's Girl 
July 17: 4x16 Who Are You 
July 24: 4x17 Superstar 
July 31: 4x18 Where the Wild Things Are 
August 7: 4x19 New Moon Rising 
August 14: 4x20 The Yoko Factor 
August 21: 4x21 Primeval 
August 28: 4x22 Restless 

No pressure to post on Tuesdays! Any time in a given week is fine.

Feel free to jump in for just an episode or a few at any time. We encourage any amount of participation! 

PROMO VIDEOS 
Season 4 Fan-Made Trailer 
The WB Promos for Season 4 

TRANSCRIPTS AND SCRIPTS 
BuffyWorld

REVIEWS AND ANALYSIS 
The Watcher's Diary (taaroko's reviews) 
Noel Murray at the AV Club 
Passion of the Nerd video guide 
Mark Field at Fragments of My Imagination 


Last edited by Grace Newman on Thu May 03, 2018 3:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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Grace Newman
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

4x01 The Freshman
Written and directed by Joss Whedon
Original air date: October 5, 1999



1. Overall thoughts about this episode? How does it compare to other BtVS season openers?
2. What did you think of our first look at all the new elements for Season 4: the campus, Riley, Maggie Walsh, the mysterious commando dudes, etc.?
3. What did you think of the pared-down main cast? (Angel and Cordelia are gone; Anya and Spike haven't shown up yet.)
4. Favorite lines/scenes?
5. Did anything stand out on rewatch?

The song playing in the Bronze when Buffy thinks she sees Angel is one of my favorite B/A-related songs: You & Me by Splendid.

(I'm thinking I'll stick with just five general questions to prompt discussion of the episodes. Feel free to ignore them / go beyond them / etc. Talk about whatever you want to talk about! I also don't need to do questions at all if that's better. Just let me know!)
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Grace Newman
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Overall thoughts about this episode? How does it compare to other BtVS season openers? The Freshman is great! I would rate it somewhere in the middle of the season openers. When She Was Bad is my favorite, then WTTH and Anne. (It would actually be fun to binge-watch all the season openers back to back. Hmm...)

I try not to read too much into angels in the cemetery, but since Joss directed this one, I'm going to go ahead and believe it was deliberate that our first shot of the season was an *angel* in the cemetery. Even though no one says his name, Angel is hovering over this episode (and the entire season, in a way). It's also a great parallel with "It started with a girl" in City Of's opening voiceover.

I really like how much this episode highlights the connection between Buffy's emotions and her slaying. From the very first scene, she's off her game, and it gets worse until Xander's lovely pep talk.

Sunday is a great villain. She seems a bit like a Buffy shadow -- a twist on some of the same elements we see in Cordelia or Glory. Like Buffy, she's blonde, superstrong, cares about fashion, and makes catty weight-related comments. Buffy has to find the middle ground between being lost and uncertain and being overconfident and arrogant.

This episode also gets points for the way it brings back Buffy's Class Protector umbrella. What a stab to the heart. Also loved the references to Mr. Pointy and Mr. Gordo.

What did you think of our first look at all the new elements for Season 4: the campus, Riley, Maggie Walsh, the mysterious commando dudes, etc.?  The campus is a great setting. I love the UC Sunnydale logo! So cute.

Sadly, even Riley and Buffy's meet-cute flops. Just like Riley's awful floppy hair. Ugh, cut it already! Smile But seriously, I know Buffy's off her game, but Willow and Riley have actual sparkage, whereas Buffy and Riley have none. I do like Buffy's lines in that scene, though. She's so adorable.

The intro to Maggie Walsh is effective, though I always cringe at that "evil bitch monster of death" line. It just seems like it's trying too hard or something?

What did you think of the pared-down main cast? (Angel and Cordelia are gone; Anya and Spike haven't shown up yet.)  The episode introduced so many new things that it wasn't that noticeable, though of course I miss Angel. Oz still doesn't get much to do, sadly.

Willow's haircut is cute, and it's fun to see her so excited. Xander is wonderful. And Giles is especially endearing with his appearance at the end.

Favorite lines/scenes? 

The whole part in the Bronze.

"Are we gonna fight? Or is there just gonna be a monster sarcasm rally?"

"And now she wants us to help get it back from her friends who sleep all day and have no tans."

Did anything stand out on rewatch? Since we just rewatched Touched, I couldn't help but notice that Xander gets below Buffy when he delivers his speech, like Spike did in that episode.


SCRIPT COMPARISON

Not too much to mention here.

This line was shortened a little:

Quote:
BUFFY
Giles says I have to be secret identity gal again. If too many people know I'm the slayer, I'm a target blah blah blah...


I didn't understand what they were going for here until I read the script:

Quote:
ANGRY GIRL
WHAT DO WE WANT?

Twenty kids respond with twenty different answers, all rendered unintelligible in the din.

ANGRY GIRL (cont'd)
When do we want it?

TWENTY KIDS
NOW!!!


Some character introductions!

Quote:
He stands, shaking his head. RILEY FINN is a junior, tall and good looking, with an open, honest face. He smiles wryly at the diminutive pair.


Quote:
As Buffy takes her seat, Professor MAGGIE WALSH sweeps into the room. She is a down to earth, likable woman in her fifties. As smart as she is strong willed. She peers at her students a moment as they quiet down.


Quote:
She's about the age of a senior, and has been for more than thirty years. Face very white, lips very red, attitude very dangerous. Punked out, schoolgirl style, and flanked by three big vamps. Her name is SUNDAY, and she leers at little Eddie with predatory glee.


Quote:
She is fairly striking, black, somewhat younger than Giles but old enough to see Buffy as nothing more than a child. She wears an oxford shirt that may well be Giles', and as far as we can see, nothing else.


This Buffy line was cut:

Quote:
OLIVIA (cont'd)
You're not Giles.

BUFFY
You're not Giles either -- unless he had a much more interesting week than I did.


Here's the script version of the scene in the Bronze when Buffy thinks she sees Angel:

Quote:
A sad, slow, Splendid song is being performed on stage as Buffy walks in.

She makes her way through the crowd, passively seeking a familiar face, or at least a familiar vibe. She takes a seat not far from the stage, looks at the crowd. Suddenly she spots:

ANGLE: ANGEL

In the crowd, turning about almost seeing her.

She starts to rise, emotion blooming on her face, when she realizes it's just:

ANGLE: SOME GUY THAT LOOKS LIKE ANGEL

Buffy settles back, disappointed.
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dcai0830
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Freshman

Ok I couldn't take great notes because I was multitasking sorry for the brevity.

1. Overall thoughts about this episode? How does it compare to other BtVS season openers?

It's middle of the road for me. I like how bright the season is. The colors pop from the very first episode. It's almost shocking how light the show is in season 4. Bigger budget I can only assume.

2. What did you think of our first look at all the new elements for Season 4: the campus, Riley, Maggie Walsh, the mysterious commando dudes, etc.?

As this is my umptenth time watching s4 (although I do tend to skip around) seeing all of the initiative stuff just makes me roll my eyes and dread the crappy "Big Bad" idea. But I do like the way that Buffy and Riley meet. It's just so ordinary. The kinda story you tell your grandkids about. I love that they establilsh from the get go how normal their relationship will strive to be amidst the chaos of both their lives.

3. What did you think of the pared-down main cast? (Angel and Cordelia are gone; Anya and Spike haven't shown up yet.)

It's funny because it doesn't seem pared down to me yet but mostly because the first episode is so crowded at college so it feels like you are meeting so many new players.

4. Favorite lines/scenes?

My ultimate favorite scene in general is the one where Buffy is walking up the quad and people are throwing flyers at her left and right and she is overwhelmed. It is such a relatable experience for me for college? (Can we talk about how many flyers were made during college??) And this is my favorite:

Quote:
Girl: Have you accepted Jesus Christ as your personal savior?
Buffy: Uh, you know I meant to and then I just got really busy.


always cracks me up.

5. Did anything stand out on rewatch?

Just got extra feels for the B/A scene at the bronze and now that this song is my all time fav I rewound the whole thing and watched it again. Buffy's face when she realizes it's not Angel is sad Sad

(Grace - I went to go see if we should include the B/A nod at the Bronze and see you already included it in our reference sheet. Good call!)
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Grace Newman
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dcai0830, I know from your posts on BB that you're not a fan of Sunday. Care to elaborate?
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dcai0830
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh I'm afraid that my reasons are entirely superficial not much analysis.

There are some characters that just grate me. Her hair, the Queen B attitude, her squinty eyes, she is a big fat no for me.

I'm always confused by her character, is she supposed to be goth or sorority girl? She talks like a sorority girl but dresses a punkish. Then she criticizes what Buffy is wearing and I just think - umm OK I know you can't see yourself in a mirror but srsly?

Ok but all of this I could forgive but the bitca stole Mr. Gordo??? (Ok but it isn't really Mr. Gordo but we'll pretend)
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Grace Newman
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dcai0830 wrote:
Ok but all of this I could forgive but the bitca stole Mr. Gordo???


Oooooohhhhh, I understand completely now. Very Happy
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Grace Newman
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

4x02 Living Conditions
Written by Marti Noxon
Directed by David Grossman
Original air date: October 12, 1999



1. Overall thoughts on this episode?
2. How do you feel about how the Scooby dynamic is shaping up for this season?
3. What did you think of the introduction to Parker?
4. Favorite lines/scenes?
5. Anything stand out on rewatch?

A commenter at Mark Field's blog mentioned that the lyrics of the Cher song actually could fit with Buffy's frame of mind right now with regards to the Angel breakup, and that might be part of why that song was used (of all the annoyingly overplayed songs available!). It goes well with the cut line in The Harsh Light of Day about how her hookup with Parker was about Angel. (It also fits with Angel sitting alone in the dark in Lonely Heart!)

So I'm just going to pull a Kathy here and make you read them. It's the funnest!

No matter how hard I try
You keep pushing me aside
And I can't break through
There's no talking to you
It's so sad that you're leaving
It takes time to believe it
But after all is said and done
You're gonna be the lonely one

Do you believe in life after love
I can feel something inside me say
I really don't think you're strong enough
Do you believe in life after love
I can feel something inside me say
I really don't think you're strong enough

What am I supposed to do
Sit around and wait for you
Well I can't do that
And there's no turning back
I need time to move on
I need a love to feel strong
Cause I've got time to think it through
And maybe I'm too good for you

Do you believe in life after love
I can feel something inside me say
I really don't think you're strong enough
Do you believe in life after love
I can feel something inside me say
I really don't think you're strong enough

Well I know that I'll get through this
'Cause I know that I am strong
I don't need you anymore
I don't need you anymore
I don't need you anymore
No I don't need you anymore

Do you believe in life after love
I can feel something inside me say
I really don't think you're strong enough
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dcai0830
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
But after all is said and done
You're gonna be the lonely one


My mind is BLOWN right now! LOL.
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Grace Newman
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Overall thoughts on this episode? Living Conditions is one of those episodes that I love to watch but I don't really have much to say about. It's funny. I like it. Buffy is pretty, especially when she wears black.

How do you feel about how the Scooby dynamic is shaping up for this season? Wah, I don't like it! I know people have to grow and change, but it's hard. It's not like things are way off yet, but little things like Buffy asking Xander why he's on campus for lunch ... well, signs point to badness ahead.

Although I will say that I kind of low-key ship Willow/Buffy in Season 4. I don't know why. It's the only season in which it ever even occurs to me to ship them.
 
What did you think of the introduction to Parker? I love him! I mean, just for this one episode (and most of the next one), but he's so adorable and I like that Buffy likes him. I want Buffy to be enthusiastic about the guys she dates, not have to be convinced to date them over the course of five and half seasons (I'm not bitter, lol).

Those plastic baggies, though!

Favorite lines/scenes? 

Xander: So, where're you from, Kathy?
Kathy: Nebraska, originally.
Xander: Ahh, yes. Big sky country. (The Scoobies' thoughts on the "ones in the middle" will never not be funny to me.)

"Nobody deserves mime, Buffy."

"On the plus side, you killed the bench, which was looking shifty."

(Oz was on fire this ep!)

Anything stand out on rewatch? 

The themes of Season 4 are a little more apparent on rewatch. As Mark Field writes: "Since issues of identity appeared in both of the first two episodes, the question of one's identity, including identity theft, is therefore an important theme of the season."

SCRIPT COMPARISON:

There's not a ton to mention. Some of the little Willow moments throughout the episode were not in the shooting script but help to make sense of what's going on. I particularly like the Willow/Oz scene at her dorm door that they added. Here are some scripty bits:

The intended music in the teaser was Mariah, not Cher.

Quote:
Buffy, in patrol mode, is getting ready to go out. KATHY her cute roomie, does some ironing while she watches Buffy. Kathy appears well-meaning, but on the anal side. Currently, she's spinning Mariah Carey's "Butterfly." To make matters worse - she has an OVERSIZED CELINE DION POSTER COVERING HER WALL. It should also be noted that Kathy's side of the room is meticulously clean and orderly - while Buffy's is a comfy mess.

It's clear that these two are still in the "polite stage" of roomie living - but that they are both irritated with each other and working hard to maintain it. Buffy is obviously bugged by the Mariah, but she tries to find something positive to say about it.

BUFFY
(looking at Mariah CD)
Wow. This music is so... She's... wearing a really little skirt.


This line was trimmed:

Quote:
BUFFY
I know. It's probably just me - having a bitch attack.
(quickly/defensive)
But it's not. Me. I mean, she's make anybody nuts. She has her outfits written up on index cards and she gives them names like "Easter at the White House." I find that deeply, deeply disturbed - don't you?


Character introduction!

Quote:
Buffy turns to find herself staring up into the dreaminess that is PARKER ABRAMS. He's a few years older, very sweet and smart. And he makes girls go goo goo with his eyes. Buffy tries to play it cool, despite the fact that she's a tad awed.


Description of Willow's room:

Quote:
Now we see Willow on the other end of Buffy's complaints. She's in the middle of an INSANE PARTY raging in her dorm room. Her roomie is clearly a stoner maniac and the place is a chaotic mess. As she listens, Willow gets hit in the head with a Nerf football. Clearly, this happens a lot, because she barely reacts.


This was cut from the scene where Xander and Oz have Buffy restrained in Giles' apartment:

Quote:
OZ
(interrupting him)
Don't engage. I'm pretty sure the next part is about fava beans and nice Chianti.


This exchange between Buffy and Kathy didn't have the Giles bits in the script:

Quote:
BUFFY
I knew you were one of them. One of those demon things.

KATHY
I'm not. Those guys are after me-

BUFFY
Funny. I'm seeing the skin, the eyes...

KATHY
So, I'm from the same dimension. But I'm not like them. They're disgusting-

BUFFY
What - they don't live by the Kathy "system?"

KATHY
You know - why don't you just stuff it and let me finish my ritual-

BUFFY
Ritual?

KATHY
(duh)
Your nightmares.

BUFFY
(gets it)
Were real.

KATHY
(exasperated)
Look, I'm sorry, okay? I left my dimension to go to college and they sent these guys after me. They don't know what shape I took as a human, but they can always sense a creature without a soul, which I don't have. So I'm borrowing yours...

BUFFY
Without even asking!
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dcai0830
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. Overall thoughts on this episode?

Quote:
Living Conditions is one of those episodes that I love to watch but I don't really have much to say about. It's funny. I like it.


Same for me.

But I find the whole thing pretty relatable. I have a half sibling but she is 12 yrs younger than me and we didn't live together. So I was raised basically as an only child and the roommate experience was BRUTAL for me. Everything drove me nuts it was a tough adjusstment period. So I love this episode. This is what makes btvs so great, taking real life experiences that we all go through (high school/college) and giving it supernatural twists.

2. How do you feel about how the Scooby dynamic is shaping up for this season?

I think one thing I noticed is that Willow is obviously going through some stuff with her roommate and Buffy never asks her about it or Willow never shares it. I'm not so sure why? I guess it's hard to understand why Willow doesn't share her issues where in previous seasons she would have shared with Buffy. Maybe she didn't want to burden Buffy because of what she was dealing with her roommate? But I think this is a little sign of the "growing apart" that is going to happen this season.

I have to say though - that the "growing apart" that happens in this season doesn't bother me so much. It feels organic.

Quote:
like Buffy asking Xander why he's on campus for lunch ... well, signs point to badness ahead.


Yeah I hate that line. Boo.

3. What did you think of the introduction to Parker?

Listen I have a giant obsessive crush on Parker. I KNOW he is a douche. I KNOW he is a player. I'll be the first to admit that I was pretty bad at falling for those types of guys in high school/college so apparently even on screen I can't help but be attracted to what I know is bad for me.

But aside from being gorgeous and those eyebrows he seems nice enough now!

4. Favorite lines/scenes?

"Wish me Monsters" is a classic line.

Every single thing that Oz says.

5. Anything stand out on rewatch?

Can I just take a moment to say that I appreciate s4 100% more when I have just come off watching s7! I love Buffy, she is funny, and light hearted, and she is cute, and she still seems reasonably happy.

Does anyone else think that Kathy's iron is so weird looking?? It's like an industry sized iron!

I always forget how much I love s4 Willow. It might be my favorite Willow. She is coming into her own.

Is Buffy wearing her same hoodie from Graduation Day? The greyish one?

Do you guys REMEMBER when that Cher song was everywhere though? I do. Every store, every radio station, EVERY time you turned on TRL.

I LOVE OZ!!! Smile Do you all realize how little time Oz and Buffy ever have together? I can't remember if they have ever had an alone scene before this but they have a few of them in s4. I'm trying to remember. I love it because everyone knows how Seth and SMG are such great friends and have been since they were itty bitty kiddos.

The soul suckage thing: I've always had a fic idea for a temporary soulless Buffy story and I thought about using these demons as a platform but what I always interpreted from this episode was that Kathy had only partially suckedd out Buffy's soul, she isn't completely soulless at the end of the episode right? Because Kathy tries to continue to suck her soul which means she still has 'some' soul, which then means does that mean that a soul is quantifiable as in less soul = more evil? I know the soul thing is just a plot device but I was wondering if ya'll had thought of this.
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Dark Star
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I LOVE OZ!!! Do you all realize how little time Oz and Buffy ever have together? I can't remember if they have ever had an alone scene before this but they have a few of them in s4.


Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered is the one that springs to mind. Buffy hiding behind a box because she has no clothes on, and Oz goes off to find her something.

And I love Oz, too.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 5:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slowly catching up... I haven't read everyone's thoughts yet so I'll comment on that after.

The Freshman

1. Overall thoughts about this episode? How does it compare to other BtVS season openers?

I absolutely love this episode! It's one of my favorite episodes for Buffy and definitely my favorite season opener. I think it does such a good job at setting the new environment and dynamics. We know where everyone's at this season and I had forgotten that we also already get a teaser of the initiative storyline.

2. What did you think of our first look at all the new elements for Season 4: the campus, Riley, Maggie Walsh, the mysterious commando dudes, etc.?

The campus and college feel is my favorite thing about season 4 and it's definitely a strong element of this episode. It really did feel like my own experience of going to college. Riley was okay. I don't really have a strong opinion about him one way or the other. Maggie Walsh already comes across as cold and inscrutable and I think that works for the character. I'm not a fan of the initiative storyline in general, but I think it's well set up. The ending of the episode is definitely intriguing.

3. What did you think of the pared-down main cast? (Angel and Cordelia are gone; Anya and Spike haven't shown up yet.)

I like it! As much as I appreciate what the other characters bring to the show, I didn't feel like something was missing.

4. Favorite lines/scenes?

My favorite scene is Buffy's fight with Sunday at the end. It's my favorite staking of hers and I love her reaction to the class protector umbrella. I've also always had a soft spot for Xander's pep talk to Buffy but this rewatch kind of tainted it for me. I had never noticed before that "You're my hero" is immediately followed by "Ok, sometimes when it's dark and I'm all alone I think, 'What is Buffy wearing?'". Like... why? such an unnecessary line, and not even funny.

5. Did anything stand out on rewatch?

Buffy looked so small in that episode. Especially when she falls down in the vampires lair. She looked all tiny and vulnerable. I love that the class protector umbrella is what brought her strength back. And fighting vampires was ironically what she needed to realize she was going to be okay in college. She just needed to have a constant in her life, something she knows she's able to do.

The teacher in pop culture class told Buffy that she was sucking life out of everyone in the class... it felt kind of a teaser for next episode! Wink

Also, Buffy looks so beautiful in this episode. Every time she appeared on screen, I couldn't help but think how pretty she is.
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Mylie
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grace Newman wrote:


Did anything stand out on rewatch? Since we just rewatched Touched, I couldn't help but notice that Xander gets below Buffy when he delivers his speech, like Spike did in that episode.




Yes, I noticed that as well!

This really does make me think of the similarities between those 2.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

4x03 The Harsh Light of Day
Written by Jane Espenson
Directed by James A. Contner
Original air date: October 19, 1999



1. Overall thoughts on this episode?
2. What did you think of Buffy's experience with Parker?
3. How do you feel about the return of Spike, Harmony and Anya?
4. Favorite lines/scenes?
5. Anything stand out on rewatch?

Bonus question: Do you have any B/A-related Gem of Amara head canons?
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